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Game improvement suggestions on Dropping and Kiting

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  • Game improvement suggestions on Dropping and Kiting

    Too many players keep their trophies low to farm resources. This puts off new players from enjoying the game. Being constantly raided by castle 10 players when your castle is still below 8 is ridiculous. Suggestions to fix this issue:

    1. Awards regular (weekly?) rewards to players on the top, the higher the trophy counts, the more you get.
    2. Limit the lowest the players' trophies can drop based on castle level.
    3. Penalise the number of available loots based on castle levels difference, the higher the gap, the less you can loot. Awarding more loot to higher league doesn't seem to discourage people from dropping as battles on higher league are more costly. But maybe penalty will.

    Kiting is becoming more and more popular tactics in the game. Yet there is little you can do to counter this, especially when invading enemies have more supply limits than you.
    Suggestions to balance the odd:
    1. Improve troops AI to respond threat in proportion. An iron guard attack does not require 100+ supplies worth of troops as response.
    2. Give defending player a rally flag on each battle. When deployed, rally flag will act as rally point to assemble defending troops in desired location, or;
    3. Add rally cry ability to champions. This will allow champions to rally the troops to gather around them.

    Putting limits on the number of rally flag or cool down on rally cry ability will make a viable counter method but not making kiting impossible. Champions are not immune from kiting anyway.
    They are also useful for the attackers to focus the troops' attack and help alleviate the troops irrational hate against walls.

  • #2
    Cool suggestions, sounds well thought out.


    • #3
      The Moff approves.


      • #4
        +1 this for sure


        • #5


          • #6
            I liiikkkee iittttt!!!! Can nnnott contaaaiinnn mmmyyy brorupptionnnnnn!!!!


            • #7
              Cool. I'm on board


              • #8
                message has to contain 10 or more characters. Oh forums


                • #9
                  if dashes from the video they posted on announcements get implemented, a rally cry ability would actually be a good solution from champion side.. yo hope y'all dev seeing this


                  • #10
                    agree with this


                    • #11
                      After thinking about it more, and also fighting Old Republic today (lookin at you, Bonye and Chay haha), two things really stuck in my mind:
                      1. Proportional response to incoming troops:
                        • If you have troops deployed, your entire army shouldn't run after one ranger. That's ridiculous of course. But what are the rules? The game suddenly will be making judgement calls, so I see why this is a difficult call. If it makes a poor call, maybe that could feel worse than not making a call on it period (the current system).
                        • I think if the map were subdivided in to regions or zones, you could come up with a simple weighting mechanic. If there's 1 ranger coming at the left guardian tower, only send a few of your troops from your nearest occupied region in response. If they send their entire army, then your army goes that way too.
                      2. Rally:
                        • I like this idea because it adds more micro controls like a traditional RTS or MOBA, not far off from the upcoming champion control scheme update. Where can it be put to be easy to use but balanced?
                        • Maybe allowing Guardian Towers and the Castle to act as rally points could work. Either tapping them, or selecting them and then hitting a rally button. This would work also with the region system above since if you lose a tower, you can't rally there any longer- fall back to the castle.
                      There are parts of kiting I like but there is a tipping point where it's not longer a strategy, but just taking advantage of an unbalanced system to game an always-win formula. I hope the devs can come up with a system where the tactics are still available but not so punishing that there's no way to defend properly.


                      • #12
                        I agree that Dropping and Kiting are two issues that the GK community is currently facing. However, I find that human nature is to find ways to manipulate game dynamics to give oneself an advantage. I am not supporting these activities but rather playing devils advocate in this post to give a different perspective on the solutions.

                        Dropping (Farming):
                        1. I actually agree with this solution. If you have common rewards for different leagues then it would promote players to push trophies. I would suggest making 600+ and 1200+ weekly/monthly rewards higher since they are key trophy milestones that you can't drop below. However, the individual player might not take the bait and determine that farming is more valuable than this weekly/monthly rewards.
                        2. I don't believe they will set trophy level limitation based on castle level. I would argue against this mechanism for the peer fact that castle level does not directly relate to a players league (trophy range). You have to take into consideration the players skill, troop levels, hero levels, and alliance support to name a few to get the whole picture of how trophy level is attained. What happens to the solo player who likes to play PvE with the bosses and has a level 10 castle? You going to push him up to higher trophies where others can raid and take his resources more often? What about that high level player who plays with his low level friend. Are you going to discourage him from associated with that alliance due to his castle level? These are just a few examples of where this solution would draw problems. Yes you could counter my argument with "loose" trophy pushes for high castle levels but there is a slippery slope when you force players into leagues which they never attained before upgrading their castles.
                        3. I do believe they currently have a system which penalizes available loot based on castle level differences (My personal view which is not confirmed). This percentage can't be too drastic though because it will cause huge economic problems across the board in terms of higher level players collecting resources. Therefore this option is limited and probably won't deter "farming" from happening. As a player, I would rather have a reasonable economy for resources than pushing farmers to the appropriate levels.

                        1. I agree with LoC on this topic. Giving the AI the ability to choose will just lead down a dark pathway. Players will learn the mechanisms of the AI and once again start to find ways to take advantage of the new system when attacking.
                        2. This could be a possible solution for kiting. However it might make it harder on attackers now. I am not only talking about avoiding a kite but manipulating my defense of all ballistas to retreat back to a safe zone while my first tower has fallen. Now the attacking player can't get to my back line of ballistas which gives him a huge disadvantage. Overall this mechanism would totally change the whole balance of offense vs defense in the new meta. Giving the defenders this ability would break the game in my opinion. Most of these strategy games are made so the offense has a slight advantage so the economy is based on raiding. Not sitting in your base defending while collecting your gold mines and wood mills.
                        3. Same response as number 2. Adding the ability to manipulate your troops after dropping them destroys the dynamic of the game.

                        Overall you really don't have any solution other than positive reinforcement to promote players to push trophies. Developers don't want to make enemies out of the "paying" players. Kiting is a problem but sometimes making a solution can dig you a bigger hole. My one solution would be a suicide button. This would eliminate your troop and restore your troop count after the designated time period. It would benefit the offense by instantly killing one of the enemies troops while helping the defender get his troop count back. Done correctly a defending team would only need to eliminate a couple of troops (not all of them) to provide adequate counter measures. In time, this solution could make kiting not a viable solution since risk versus reward of kiting may not be cost beneficial. What are your thoughts?


                        • #13
                          Great and detailed thoughts Novafire. I agree pretty much across the board. While I wonder if Rally could be implemented in a non-meta-breaking way, that would be difficult for sure. Possibly it could be a one-time-use ability etc, but who knows.

                          I was joking in Alliance Chat about a button to kill off my idiot troops who are getting kited - but yeah, it's a valid option especially when the thought experiment is explored further. The benefits are: it costs troops to suicide troops and regain supply to deploy - it isn't free; it makes supply available as needed to better defend and feeds into the counter-vs-counter meta which I personally find more fun.


                          • #14
                            +1 i do concur

                            definitely like the rally idea as a power up for a champion


                            • #15
                              Didn't realise that I posted this under Guides & Strategy instead of Technical Support & Suggestions.
                              Maybe the moderator can move this post to appropriate forum?

                              The idea to raise issue about dropping is not to penalise higher level players, it's more to discourage bully. I encountered defenses against very high level players with trophies below 600, preying noobs. If I am a new player being constantly raided with this type of players, I would lose interest on the game and stop playing altogether. Sure low level players can still get help from high level buddies, but then high level alliances will tend to select high level members, so it will balance out eventually.

                              Casual dropping is acceptable for me, I myself actively try to avoid getting my trophies to 1200+ at the moment, as Castle lvl 9 player, I'm not yet ready to play with the big boys/girls up there.

                              Yes, the economy is based on raiding. However reducing the number of loots to slow down the advancement is actually preferable (to me at least) than increasing the upgrading time required. We get to battle more instead of just idling waiting for the timer to finish.
                              And if the raids are zero sum games, we still need people to upgrade their mines and mills to supply resources to the economy. That might be the reason why the devs throw extra resources loot on higher level battles
                              I think incentives like rewards will inject more resources into the game.

                              I'm not totally against kiting. I admire the ex-Night Crew gangs for coming out with the reavers kite strategy, kudos to them!
                              You can still counter kiting when you are defending high level castles with high level alliance halls, but it's almost impossible to defend on lower levels. Hence the suggestions to balance it out.

                              By no means I don't think my suggestion is THE solutions, that's why I posted in forum to get everyone's opinions.
                              It will be fun to have fancy ideas posted and adopted by the devs. So fire away!